Forgive To Be Forgiven

Teachable Woman Podcast

Reverends Michele Owes and Diana P. Cherry

Forgive To Be Forgiven

[00:00:00]

Rev. Michele Owes: Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Teachable Woman Podcast. We're excited to be with you again. I am Reverend Michele Owes. I am with Reverend Mrs. Diana P. Cherry, and together we are Teachers of Good Things. Mrs. Cherry, please say hello.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Hello Podcast Family! While Reverend Owes was praying. I was just impressed that some of you might have gone through tornadoes, snowstorms, or windstorms recently. And before we start the podcast, I just want you to know that if you have, be strong. Be encouraged many times, things like that.

They're just tests, they're just trials, and if we handle them correctly, they'll make us stronger. So if you are in need of our special prayer because of some kind of a , natural disaster, let us know. We'd like to know how you're doing. And I [00:01:00] just wanted to lift that up because it happened to me in my family.

I have a niece who's going through a tornado today, so, uh, I wanted to do that and say, hi, podcast family. Good to be back with you.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes. Yes. And we do pray for your safety.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yes,

Rev. Michele Owes: for God's provisions to care for you and your family,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: yes.

Rev. Michele Owes: will be done. Amen.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yeah.

Rev. Michele Owes: to that. And thank you Mrs. Cherry, for bringing that to our attention.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Are we living in some crazy weather times?

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes, absolutely, absolutely. We were forewarned years ago, but there were people who just didn't believe there was any global warming going on. They've, they've silenced themselves now because nature is just showing us exactly how much damage we've done. But in our very last podcast, we talk about forgiveness.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yeah.

Rev. Michele Owes: We talked about the fact that God forgives as Christians, should [00:02:00] we forgive we came to the conclusion that we absolutely positively should our prayers are hindered we do not forgive others. even talked about the fact that the Bible tells us that if we are bringing our offering and we have ought in our heart against our brother, that we are to leave our offering go make. Amends with our brother. We learned that forgiveness does not mean trust.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Amen.

Rev. Michele Owes: And so Mrs. Cherry brought that to our attention at the nth hour of the last podcast, and that is so important. But I do wanna start us off today in Galatians and Galatians says this, which I think is so apropos to what we're talking about, chapter five, verse number seven says, ye did run well.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: Who did hinder you that you should not [00:03:00] obey the truth? This persuasion come with not of him that call you

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: little leaven, leave the whole lump in essence. The scriptures are saying to us that we could have been walking our Christian walk very

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: obeying the Lord, doing the things that he would have us to do, as they say, walk in the walk and talk in the talk, and then all of a sudden something hindered our relationship with God and, and may be that we can't quite put our finger on exactly what it is or what it was, and it just may be. Unforgiveness. Maybe we have not forgiven someone else or we have not forgiven ourselves. one of the important things that we want to highlight today is that when someone sins the sin is against God. It is not against us. Now we think that people do things to us, and of course [00:04:00] we feel the effect or the brunt of what has been done, Man, sins against God. It is disobedience to our creator and our sustainer to God, oftentimes we want people to ask us to forgive them when what they need is forgiveness from God.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm. Yes, that's that's very true. And in forgiving, we have to examine our own hearts because as we always say on the podcast, when I hold. Something in my heart against another person. I'm really hurting myself. I'm not hurting the other person. They are free as a bird flying away and their wings are waving.

Bye-bye to us and we are totally bent out of shape because we have taken everything in life sometimes personally and for the most. Time. Many times in life people don't even know they've hurt you. They hurt your [00:05:00] feelings. Step on you, step over you and keep on going, and you, you are devastated. They are free.

They don't think they did anything wrong. They don't remember they did anything wrong, and they are gone about their business and we're still stuck in wherever that hurt, um, happened to us. So one of the things when I was looking up, uh, forgive it, it, uh, says that. For the lack of ability to forgive is because we have a desire to punish, or we say it is just not fair that they've gone on with their lives.

You know? Especially, let's, let's use a common example. Um. Illicit or immoral relationship, and that's what the word of God calls them. And we end up pregnant and the guy has gone on about his business, don't even know he's getting ready to get the next one pregnant. And we are, we're, we're like, we're like, but he needs to pay for that.

He needs to do this and do that. And that's one of the [00:06:00] things that I addressed in my book, why some women. Will pursue that no good person. And pursue 'em. And pursue 'em and pursue them. And other people will say, Hey, I did my part. I don't want that dude nowhere near me or mine and going with their lies.

And oftentimes the difference is that we want to see them punished. We want to see them pay for what they did. And, uh, God gave us salvation free of charge. He didn't ask us to pay for one thing. He just said, if we accept Jesus in our hearts and believe you know, we're saved. So I think one of the key elements to being able to move forward and not to hold unforgiveness in our hearts is that we have to give up.

The desire to punish. And then I think the other thing that we have to do is give up resentment. I mean, at some point life goes on and we [00:07:00] cannot, we could be diminishing our natural life by holding something spiritual in our hearts like unforgiveness, and it's just going to destroy us. So I want us to realize if we happen to be harboring unforgiveness, just take a moment by yourself and and examine why we are new.

We are mere human beings. We don't have the power to forgive, and we really don't have the strength to hold on to unforgiveness because it will end up destroying us and our desire. Um, to get back at the other person or our resentment for what they did to us. Never realized we did it to ourselves. 'cause most times when things happen like that, it was a choice and we chose to be a very, uh, happy and active participant in the mess [00:08:00] that was going on.

And now, now since, since we had joy at the moment, there's no time now to lose our life. Or to use lose some of our longevity because we shorten our own lives by harboring unforgiveness. So give it up. It's not worth it.

Rev. Michele Owes: I think also at the root is that we set an expectation. And that expectation was not met. So it's an unmet expectation. We set an expectation for how we should be treated, how we should be regarded, uh, what should happen. And these were things that we set up. And oftentimes the other person had no idea. We had this expectation, but we had it. We thought it's so natural that what we were thinking was the right thing and that a person should be able to live up to our quote standard or our expectation of what they should do, [00:09:00] whether it's relationships on the job, relationships in the family, uh, personal, intimate relationships, church relationships. You know, we think people ought to act a certain way. Treat us a certain way, do a certain thing or

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rev. Michele Owes: And when we really think about the fact that when man sins, he sins against God and not us. Then did we even have a right to set an expectation that was not communicated, that was not agreed upon? one that says like, [00:10:00] okay, every time you see me, you should greet me with a smile in some respect so that when somebody walks past you and they don't greet you, and now we are upset because we think someone mistreated us or ignored us. Well, who said I had to speak to you every time I saw you and

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right, right,

Rev. Michele Owes: Although it should be a common expectation in the Christian Church that we greet one another in Christian Love,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: right.

Rev. Michele Owes: but. Sometimes, you know, you are looking in a direction and you don't even see the people in that direction because your mind is somewhere else. There ought to be enough grace to forgive us for that moment because maybe we weren't even looking at, you could have been staring right at you, but not really seeing you because your mind is somewhere else. And sometimes life complicates our issues such to the extent that we can just. Zone out. We are, we're there, but we're really not there.

We're thinking about something else.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: I know I'm, I'm, I was so guilty of that [00:11:00] so many times in the ministry and people would think that I had ignored them. And the truth being told, I didn't even see 'em. You know, I was tunnel vision trying to get to the next place that this man was dragging me to, and I had no idea. So sometimes, sometimes when we offend it's intentional, but, but then again, sometimes it's unintentional.

And I think that, um, the, the term being intentional in all that we do is a very popular. Now term. So sometimes if we don't understand what an expectation is, it, it's an it's, it's an intention. It's what I intended and what you didn't intend. And as a result, I ended up being hurt, but it was because. As Reverend said is because of un unrealistic expectations.

And then when those unrealistic expectations are not met, we end up [00:12:00] with, um, just unmet expectations, all kinds of hurt. And most of the time, the times that we've been hurt. If we would sincerely go back and examine ourselves in the situation, we would find out that many times we set ourselves up. For disappointment because we intended it to go this way, and that dude didn't have no intentions of going any farther than that night in the bed for the moment.

Oh, you know, she always gets down to the nitty gritty, the girl she is.

Rev. Michele Owes: I was gonna say, well, there are some other examples in

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yeah, but listen, in the world we live in, let's get real.

Rev. Michele Owes: Understood. Completely.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: one of the biggest, uh, hindrances in life, especially for women. We're emotional beings and we meet somebody and most of our hurts gen. I really think I'm telling the truth when I [00:13:00] say many, if not most of our hurts flow from the opposite sex and our expectations being unmet or. Our intentions not being known by the other person.

I call 'em unknown knowns. We knew what we wanted and we knew where it was going, but it was not known to the other person, so they just rode rough shot right over us, knocked us out, and kept on going.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah. You know, prayer is so important about all things before we do anything. you know, God will let us know if this is right thing for us, if this is the right person for us. And you know, one of the things I learned in ministry is that we cannot force God to do what we want, but we have to force ourselves. Align with his will.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: To do what's right.

Rev. Michele Owes: if we ask God a [00:14:00] question, is this right for me? Or is this situation the one you want me to be in? Is this the choice you want me to make? And we don't hear anything. We can't force an answer because we don't hear. But that is a chance to be still.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: Until God reveals to us everything he needs to reveal to us.

And if he doesn't answer at that moment, he's either already told you to walk away and leave it alone

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: have not done it and there's no new answer, we just need to wait until we are mature enough to get the answer he's gonna give us.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right.

Rev. Michele Owes: And um, go

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Oh no, I, I was just gonna say that is just so, so true and sometimes God is quiet. Other times, like recently I had a situation and I just knew I was supposed to move forward, but in the same week I had another situation and I just wasn't sure, and I just kept asking God, and this is what? I gauge [00:15:00] for me and my relationship with the Lord.

If I start moving forward slowly and everything falls into place, then to me. I accept that as God not being displeased with it. He hasn't, I haven't heard a word from him, but my indicator for everything in life is peace. If I keep moving forward and I'm just nervous and upset and just not quite right, you know, that feeling like, uh, it's like a turmoil in your tummy,

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: I, I, you know, I stop because something is not right.

But, um. The, the two things that I'm talking about, they were just natural decisions to go somewhere or to do something. Wasn't a great big spiritual mountain to climb. And um, I sense that God just said, you know, you got a brain, just move. Just make a decision and move forward. And. As long as I don't have that feeling that [00:16:00] it's not right with God, then I'm assuming that it's okay for me to do this because neither decision was life shattering.

Life ending, or, you know, it wasn't impacting anybody but me and maybe my little finances. But, um, that's, I use peace as an indicator of, uh, my position with God and my life, my walk in life, you know, every day I, and every night when I pray, and every morning when I pray, I, I just pray that his will will be done in my life.

The 37 second prayer again, you know, I just pray that his will will be done in my life. If I have peace, I really do believe that, um, I'm being led by him. I, I really, really believe, you know, lemme share something. The Holy Spirit is so nice to us. I had. Uh, uh, where I am, I'm by myself, and I had laid down a very important remote.

It wasn't to a television, but it's to my awnings, and I'm in a very windy place. [00:17:00] And for the life of me, I thought I'd thrown out trash and I said, holy Spirit, every time I have these situations, you answer me. I was outdoors on my patio and looked over on a chair, and under the cushion I saw something sticking out.

I mean instantly. And so sometimes God will do that. He'll instantly show you things or give you that one word or whatever. But then there are other times that he expects us to use our holy, godly brains that he gave us and to make decisions and to let peace be our guide as we move through life. But if, if we're harboring unforgiveness, we don't have peace.

You know, we, we don't, we might have an instant once in a while, but a deep seated, long-term relationship that we have not given up the, um, desire to punish or given up the [00:18:00] resentment. It's like a cancer. It will just slowly eat away at us. So we have, I said this in a, in another teaching as it related to something else about choices we make.

But we have a right and we have a responsibility to forgive. Yep.

Rev. Michele Owes: Amen. The scriptures tell us that when we stand praying that we ought to forgive.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right.

Rev. Michele Owes: Luke six, verse number 37, it says, judge not, and

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right.

Rev. Michele Owes: not be judged, condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yeah. And.

Rev. Michele Owes: Ye shall be forgiven. Now these letters are in red. This is Jesus speaking. So Jesus is saying, if we forgive, we will be forgiven. And if there is no other incentive that you can find to forgive a person, just put yourself first. Hey, I wanna be forgiven. And for that reason only right now.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right.

Rev. Michele Owes: will forgive you [00:19:00] because I need to be forgiven. And oftentimes we, we fail to think about the fact that the things that someone may have done to us, we may have done ourselves to others, and now we're just on the receiving end of it and, and we don't like it. So the bottom line is the scriptures inform us clearly that we should forgive.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yeah.

Rev. Michele Owes: To be forgiven and so to choose. I just can't forgive. I can't never forgive that. I can't to choose to absolutely not do what God said we must do. you've put yourself or I've put myself in a sinful position with God because I'm just not going to do what he said. And that's that same child that's in the grocery store having to fit because they can't get what they want. And God is saying, Hey, you have to forgive. And you don't need to know all of the [00:20:00] details of why a person did that or how a person did that, because I know I'm God and I. And I'm working with that individual.

You, I just need you to work with you. This is, look, all that stands with you, however many, uh, feet and inches that stand with that, I'm giving you charge over that, right? You work that

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right,

Rev. Michele Owes: and let me work the other

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: right.

Rev. Michele Owes: So vengeance. Mine. You can't want to punish anyone. That's my job. Thank you. Say it the Lord. so there's so much that we do where we just try to step in and over into God's territory or the territory of the Holy Spirit and, you know, we're gonna fix them ourselves. So we gonna take on the vengeance, we're gonna punish them ourselves, or, it really just punishes us.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: it's heavy, weighty.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: It gets so deep in our hearts and in our minds that it just [00:21:00] removes us from who we really are.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm. Yes. It's like a cancer. It's slowly eating away at us, and sometimes we can't, as my mom used to say, I just can't put my finger on it, but something just ain't right. And sometimes that's that unrest that we have in our spirits. It is just due to the fact that something is not right in our relationship with the Lord.

And it might be that great big two letter word, if you know,

Rev. Michele Owes: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: my son is teaching a message now on if, if we obey, if we love him, if we keep his commandments, if we, you know, if, if, if, and sometimes. The big if is standing in our way, if we forgive, and you know, it really, um, if there is any rest, unrest or uncertainty or that feeling of something is not right.

If there's any of that in our hearts, [00:22:00] just stop and examine and just ask God, God, what is it? What? What would you have me to do? What have I forgotten to do? Because sometimes we forget. We forget why we're hurting so bad, we forget.

Rev. Michele Owes: Right.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: we, this thing happened to us. We just haul off and forget. And, and I mean, I'm really, honestly, uh, I really believe that sometimes we don't even know, like you said earlier, we don't know when we've offended somebody.

We don't know when we've done this, that, or the other, but our subconscious might be holding onto some things that we really need to take a moment and pray the Lord's Prayer. Very quietly, very slowly, forget about the 37 seconds. Very quietly, very slowly. That prayer is so powerful, and when we get to the end parts, you know, when we stand praying.

[00:23:00] Forgive, you know, we have to forgive, forgive our dados, you know, forgive us as that's another powerful two, two letter word as you know. How has your as as relationship been, you know, and sometimes

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes. Yes.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: just

Rev. Michele Owes: Completely. Yes, yes. But it's so important and you know, it can weave its way into our countenance. It can

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yes,

Rev. Michele Owes: its way

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: yes.

Rev. Michele Owes: whether or not we see the world and we see the works of God in the way that he would have us. It can taint our entire outlook. Because we're carrying this weight and we see the, we see the entirety of our lives by that lens. What happened to us then and who did what to me or didn't do for me, or should, or could've, would've, and all of those kinds of things.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yes, [00:24:00] yes.

Rev. Michele Owes: so we have to forgive others, but we also have to forgive ourselves because we are not perfect. We are flawed. Our flesh can get out of control if we allow it, we can make decisions that are not the ones that God would have us to make.

We can do some things that are against the will of God. We, we can just be human. Right, our carnal human sales and there is none that is perfect. So we also have to forgive ourselves for the things that we may have done in the

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: we have been holding our own selves hostage. We can find no joy in this life because we didn't do that right back then, or we had this experience that really hurt us, or we just.

Not only forgive others, we have to forgive ourselves,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right.

Rev. Michele Owes: and God is able and standing ready to forgive us for our sins and cleanses [00:25:00] us of all unrighteousness.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: It.

Rev. Michele Owes: we want you to know today in this podcast is that it does not matter what you've done.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: It does not matter. Your heavenly Father loves you. He is prepared to forgive you. is yours for the asking. If you have not taken time to just ask God to forgive you and then to help you forgive others, just to release things,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yes.

Rev. Michele Owes: now that you understand that whatever they did is really not against you, it's against a holy

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right.

Rev. Michele Owes: and they'll have to straighten that out with him themselves. So leave it to God.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yes. It.

Rev. Michele Owes: on out of the way get on in your relationship with God, get it to a place where you so enjoy running to your father every day, and he enjoys hearing

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yes. You know, I wanna share, um, a little, um, thing that I learned maybe 30, 40 years ago about forgiveness. It might be that the [00:26:00] person who we think offended us or sinned against us, even though we learned tonight, they sinned against God. It might be that they're in heaven now. And we used to teach and exercise.

You get two chairs. You sit in one and sit the other one in front of you and imagine that that person is sitting there and in your heart have a conversation with them. You know, uh, I know I talk to my husband all the time, whether he hears or not, I don't know. I don't even care. But I'm just, you know, I feel better when I talk to him, you know, did you see that?

Whatcha gonna do about that? Of course, he can't do nothing about it, but I feel better when I just say things to him. So put that person in the, in the spirit of your mind, sit them in that chair in front of you and. You can say what you want. They can't talk back, you know, and you can cry. You can do whatever you want, but it should be a [00:27:00] cleansing exercise.

And, um, they went to heaven before you had a chance to do this, but it's never too late to get your heart right and to get forgiveness for you from God. So try that. It might help.

Rev. Michele Owes: That's, that's a great exercise to try. Well, Mrs. Cherry, we have come to the end of this podcast. It has been our absolute joy to share with you. We pray that you receive something tonight that would be of benefit to you. That would have a beneficial effect not only in your life, but in the lives of the people you know, your family, your coworkers, your church members. Matter of fact, for all listening to this podcast, everybody ought to go back to church with a whole new attitude for anyone that you felt didn't. Speak to you. Didn't treat you right when you were working in the ministry, didn't let you join something. Let me tell you, they won't even let me join a choir.

I don't care what church I'm a part of because everybody knows I [00:28:00] can't sing, and I have no right to be offended because I just don't meet that qualification. So I laugh about it. It does not offend me one bit because I. I'm true to myself. God did not give me a voice to sing. I, he allows me to share the gospel and I am okay with that today,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: That's right.

Rev. Michele Owes: can't be trusted with a voice to sing 'cause I will stop talking. I will sing all day long. I cannot be trusted with a voice. Right? So. I just didn't get it, and it's okay. It's well with my soul. So, you know, just forgive everybody. Whoever you think did whatever, we don't know how people think, what they know, what caused them, not our business. Our heavenly father will take care of all of that with them, but just get our heart. Clean. Just vacuum up all of the broken pieces and sweep out the cobwebs, and just do some real house cleaning in our hearts as it [00:29:00] relates to forgiveness. Forgive our children for those who did not do what you taught them to do and chose to go another way.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yeah. Right, right. We can all be touch with that one. I think.

Rev. Michele Owes: Forgive them. This is a life that God gave them and they have the right to make choices with it. And even if we think they are the wrong choice, they are still God's children and he knows how to work with them. Our job is to continue to pray for them. Let's just forgive them. Forgive the husbands and the wives and those you used to be married to whatever.

Let's just. Clean up some stuff in the body of Christ. Let's clean up some things in our lives and in our hearts, and I think we can walk around with Life won't just be so heavy, right.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm. Amen. Well, God bless you. We've had a joy talking to you again, and we pray that the words that we've shared will minister to you. Bring comfort to your [00:30:00] heart and don't forget to pray the prayer. That is our example of prayer that we call the Lord's Prayer. God bless you. I love you much.

Rev. Michele Owes: Amen. And that is in Matthew chapter six. We'll see you on our next podcast.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Good night.