God Forgives, Should We?

God Forgives, Should We

Teachable Woman Podcast

Reverends Michele Owes and Diana P. Cherry

[00:00:00]

Rev. Michele Owes: Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Teachable Woman Podcast. We are excited to be with you. I'm Reverend Michelle Os. I am with the one and only Reverend Mrs. Deanna p Cherry. And together we are teachers of good things. Mrs. Terry, please say hello.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Hello, podcast family. Have you missed us? Big, big, big question mark. 'cause we have shown enough missed. You remember what I said? we are missing, you're not praying as hard as you ought to. So please, please pray for us. We are two widow women doing the best we can to do his will according to his way and you pray for us.

Rev. Michele Owes: Amen. Amen. Uh, as uh, it is commonly said today, life is. I think, uh, as I am sure it is with everyone, meaning that there are some days [00:01:00] that you are solely relying on Jesus to make it through. And so we all have those, but they're good tests to help us know who's not in charge, which is us. And so, uh, we are passing the test.

And we are here today with you because we love you and we are excited to be a part of the podcast again. Our last time together we talked about the faithfulness of God and that if we look back over our lives, we could see. How God has been instrumental in every one of our successes, how he has made ways out of no way, how he has answered our prayers and um, even times when we did not think he would.

And the things that we worried about years ago are not the things that we worry about today, which are the proves to us, his faithfulness. And so now we want to talk about something that is equally as important, which is [00:02:00] forgiveness. God forgives us and he desires that we would also forgive others. But there's also another little piece.

We also have to learn to forgive ourselves. And so we're going to talk about that today, about forgiveness, not only when we've done wrong, but when others have done wrong. Mrs. Cherry, talk to us a little bit about forgiveness.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Now, you know, you know, I'm going to be honest, I was, I was all set back. I had my coffee, had my legs crossed, waiting for Reverend Os to expound on forgiveness, and I was going to just sit here and eat it up. So.

Rev. Michele Owes: I'm going to start actually in a familiar place in two Chronicles seven and 14, where the scriptures tell us that if my people, which are called by my name, shall humble [00:03:00] themselves and pray. Seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will. Here's our word. Forgive their sins and heal their land.

And so for those of us who are seeking forgiveness, the Bible tells us that. The, uh, broken and a contract heart is a sacrifice of the Lord. So when we have sinned or when we have done wrong, uh, when we seek God for forgiveness, we want to have a broken and a contract heart, which is something that says, we acknowledge that we've done wrong.

We're not trying to skip over. We're not trying to act like it wasn't anything. We're not trying to act like we are. Okay. We have a broken and a contract heart because we know that we have gone against the desire of our have Then. Humble ourselves first, acknowledge that we've done something that's out [00:04:00] of the will of the Lord and we have to pray.

Go to him humbly, go to him in honesty and in truth, and seek his face. What does his words say about the thing that we have done or have not done, whether it was omission or co mission? And then turn from our wicked ways. Whatever it is, we need to stop. Whatever it is we need to bring to a, to closure, whatever it is we need to end, we have to turn away from that.

Then I will hear from heaven and we'll forgive their sins and we'll will heal their land. So there's some things that we have to do first, uh, but as it relates to forgiveness. Ask God to forgive us and hang around for the cleansing. Because there is a cause that God wants us to be aware of a cause that what [00:05:00] caused us to do the thing or what caused the other person that we need to forgive to do the thing.

So when we ask God to forgive us and to cleanse us, God is going to be cleansing us of the calls. And so we want to hang around for that. Uh, we oftentimes ask God to forgive us, but we don't hang around for the cleansing of the calls. You know, it's like, okay, God, will you forgive me? Thank you, father, and we're up and we're at it.

And then we wonder why time passes and we're right back where we were. It's because we didn't stay around for the cleansing of the calls. What caused us to make that decision?

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yeah, the, uh, forgiveness takes care of what we did, the act, but the cleansing us to get rid of what caused us to do it in the first place. And if we're no longer, if we're not cleansed from it, it'll just be a repetitive, uh.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Suspend, you know, sin like the nation of Israel. we sin, forgive us.

You're forgiven children, Lord, we sin forgive [00:06:00] us over and over and over. But you know, uh, in the New Testament, we are taught by Jesus very pointedly about forgiving

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: uh, being forgiven. And the scripture clearly teaches that if we do not forgive. You know, our forgiveness hangs on the balance. And so, um, you know, I, I like to apply things to our life and our living. And one of the things that's sorely missing today in the, in, in our, in our nation, in our relationships, in our organizations is the ability to forgive people. um, that. From my earliest childhood. That's one area that I've never had a problem with because I've always felt that I didn't have. It's not easy to say, you know, I forgive you, or please forgive me.

That's not easy to say. in my heart, I've never been able to carry [00:07:00] unforgiveness against anybody, having lived for 80 plus years, there have been plenty of. People who've hurt me have done things to me. I, I'm able to really forget a lot of things that happen to me, and sometimes people say, you remember when so and so happened, and I really don't remember it.

And I think that's a blessing from God. But we have to remember that Jesus told us when we stand praying. Forgive so that your Heavenly Father, so that your father, which is in heaven can also forgive you. And I think that it's a sad state of affairs in our country. When we lack an, an ability to forgive. was telling one of the ladies in my pool, uh, aerobics class the other day, and she's of a different color than me. And, and I was just telling her, I said, you know, it, it just seems to be something about [00:08:00] black people that we have a, an ability to forgive. More easily it seems and more quickly, of all we've gone through. you know, if you, if you're watching the news and you see a mom, she's lost her son. friend killed her or killed him, and. And, uh, or he was murdered by whatever, and you'll hear her say, well, you know, I'm really praying for him. I really don't want him to get a life sentence. I'm really praying for him that he'll be saved and, uh, killing him, won't bring my child back, too often. hear people of a different racial, uh, hue and makeup than us say, I want them to burn in hell. I don't ever want them to get outta jail. And, you know, and it breaks my heart when I hear somebody so hardened in their, uh, unforgiveness. you know, if you, if we are harboring or caring about [00:09:00] unforgiveness in our heart. It is not hurting the person that we have not forgiven. It's hurting us.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: us outta kilter. It te keeps us in a kind of an inner turmoil. It keeps us from having a lack of, uh, uh, from having peace. so it is crucial if we are born again believers. Forgiveness is one of the elementary things that we ought to be able to do as born again Christians servants of the most high God. And in everything that Jesus taught, and even in the Old Testament, throughout the word of God, we hear that we have to pray. God doesn't want us coming. for forgiveness and forgive. God doesn't want. Us coming to him, begging him for stuff and we're harbor harboring hatred and unforgiveness and unkindness and all these things in our hearts. um, I say to those of [00:10:00] us who are listening, it is. It is imperative. It is most important that we forgive because if we don't forgive the word of God clearly tells us that God will not hear our prayers and he won't forgive us.

Rev. Michele Owes: That is true.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: a loving God, standing ready. But um, our unforgiveness can be a huge block between us and God.

Rev. Michele Owes: Uh, Psalm 86 and five says, for thou Lord are good and ready to forgive and pious in mercy unto all that call upon these. So when I heard you say ready, God is standing at the ready to forgive us. If we will call upon him and ask him for forgiveness, we, uh. Talk about the, uh, example of prayer that Jesus prayed out of Matthew, the sixth chapter.

And, uh, verse number 12 through 14 says, [00:11:00] forgive our debts as we forgive our debts.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: And in some, uh, in another. Verse later. It says, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And so that two letter word, uh, as it means to the extent that I have forgiven others, Lord, forgive me.

And maybe that's one of the reasons Mrs. Terry, that you don't have a problem forgiving because it's, you know, you need the Lord to forgive you. And that is the very same for me. So we're that prayer that we pray that 37 second prayer says, Lord, forgive me to the extent that I have forgiven others

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: I dunno about you, but I know I do wrong.

So I'm going to forgive others 'cause I need my sins forgiven.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Yeah, I, don't want, I don't want that as that

Rev. Michele Owes: right.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: I want, I wanted to spell it and make sure they hear me pronouncing it. I don't

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: want anything to stand [00:12:00] between me and a Holy God.

Rev. Michele Owes: And you know, God doesn't even want our offering. He doesn't even want our tithe until we have fixed it in our heart against our brother. He, he did say, leave your tithe at the altar. He don't want us to take it out of the. And then, you know, go and settle the situation with your brother. That's how important forgiveness is to God, and it has to become something that's important to us.

Uh, unforgiveness is heavy. It's weighty. It's like we want to put something on another person's charge, but at the same time, we want God to give us a clean slate. And that that's, that's an imbalance. It's an imbalance in our thinking and. It is not a correct understanding of who God is and how he operates with us.

So if God tells us that he doesn't even [00:13:00] want our offering or our tithe, he doesn't want us to give it until we have settled the situation with our brother, and then you can have a conversation with someone. It's like, well, yeah, I do have a brother or I do have a sister, but I haven't spoken to them in.

12 years or five years or, you know, I don't talk to my parents anymore or I don't talk to this person or that person. And, and so there's ought there and it is clear in the conversation. There's ought there, but understanding that you are, prayers are not answered until you can fix how you feel against your brother

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right.

Rev. Michele Owes: or your sister.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right. And you know, there are times I have, uh, situations in my own family um, probably have something in their hearts against me think I did something. I have no idea what it is, but. I only have to go by on my own heart. And my husband used to teach, uh, [00:14:00] a true test of your forgiveness towards another person is, can you pray for them openly and honestly, that God will touch them, will heal them, and that God will be glorified in their lives. And I, I think of, uh, can you imagine you have been. up whipped on your back. to carry a cross up. Go golfer's hill, and you are on. Yeah, a crown of thorns. You are bleeding. You bruise, you are hurting. And yet Jesus Christ, the righteous son of God on the cross after having been and all kinds of stuff spat upon giving him when he asked for water, giving him vinegar. you imagine that at the apex of the most horrific death [00:15:00] anyone could possibly experience? It seems to me a knife would be pretty quick. A gun would be even quicker. But there he is hanging in the sun as the day is, is turning to evening and being hanging on that cross, he looks out and what does he do? He says he father, forgive them. Forgive them if they know not what they do. They're just ignorant little creatures. And I'm bigger than them. I'm better than them. you know, I think when we think about Jesus was a real person. He was manic. God manifested in the flesh. But his flesh capable of being hurt, just like our flesh.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: He bled, he was all, the word of God, teaches us clearly that he was 100% human, [00:16:00] 100% divine, and that human part of him suffered

Rev. Michele Owes: yes.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: and hanging on that cross. He says, father, forgive them. They're poor, little ignorant things. They don't know what they do. And, and that. know, sometimes I just think about what he did for us and it, it, it almost bring, brings tears to my eyes to know that savior was a real human being and he suffered that horrible death so that I could have life.

And those of us who choose to accept him as their personal Lord and Savior, they can have life. That is the ultimate, forgiveness. That

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: ultimate, and he is our example.

Rev. Michele Owes: that is true. And if he can forgive humankind while he's in the midst of the trial, the pain wasn't over, he was still [00:17:00] hanging and said, forgive them for they know not what they do. Then how can we not forgive those who we believe have trespassed against us or have done things wrong? How can we not forgive them?

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: Jesus was able to forgive

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: for the horrific things that were done to him,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: And, and don't mess with our duck.

Rev. Michele Owes: do we consider what someone has done to us? Worse than that?

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right? And as human beings, don't mess with our money now. That's like, that's like the biggie. That's like the unforgivable, don't mess. You can do anything but don't mess with these men's money 'cause they will chop you up and spit you out if you do that. We, and then we have such a lack of compassion.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes. Yes. In one John [00:18:00] one and nine, it says, if we confess our sins. He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness so we can share with God who already knows 'cause he is not slack in anything. He knows our thoughts are far off. He already knows. But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and he is just to forgive us and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

And while we are seeking our own forgiveness, we have to have the courage to forgive others. Because that, that's really what it takes. It just takes some courage to not think about what we're thinking about holding to someone else's charge. Understanding that Jesus himself did not hold to our charge, [00:19:00] the things that happened to him, and we have to have courage enough to free others from what we perceive is wrongdoing.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Um.

Rev. Michele Owes: I have learned over time is oftentimes what you think somebody said or did, they didn't, we're not even involved. And the people that you don't think were involved were the prime, prime time perpetrators, so we don't even know. But holding ought against someone is heavy. It's weighty. And holding ought against ourselves is the same.

If we've asked God for forgiveness, if we've had a broken and a contract heart, if we've humbled ourselves, if we have sought his face. We ask God for forgiveness, then he said he'll hear us and that he will forgive us and heal our land. And so we want you to know that God is a forgiving God and there [00:20:00] is nothing that we can do that He will not forgive us for.

If we look at the characters in the Bible, some committed murder, some committed adultery, some committed incest, some commit, all sorts of things. We have a, a group of characters in the Bible, but God was able to forgive, to cleanse, to instruct, uh, according to his will as he needed to use people that he chose.

To highlight in the Bible. In addition to that, uh, we also have people in the Bible who chose not to seek God or see God, and we saw the evilness of their ways and the effect it had not only on their lives and their families, but also on the people that they were in leadership over. And so we want to make sure that we understand first and foremost, that forgiveness.

Is for the act [00:21:00] that cleansing is for the cause. We want to remember that God is faithful and just. To forgive us and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness, that there's nothing that can separate us from his love. So therefore, we should not continue to carry the weight of sin. We should, because we are to cast all of our cares of on him.

We should not continue to try to define ourselves by our sin, understanding that God is willing to cleanse us. Us of all unrighteousness.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: I want to share that as we forgive, there's a difference in forgiveness and trusting if a person has breached your trust, stolen from you, taken things out of your home, they might be on drugs or something like that, you can forgive them. God expects us [00:22:00] to forgive them, trust is a time tested attribute. Even though you've forgiven them, doesn't mean that you can, you can trust them. Again, don't, don't say I forgive you and here's the key to my house, and you can come in anytime you want to the next time you come home, you might not have a house, you might not have any possessions in your house. So there's a distinct difference between, uh, forgiving someone not holding anything in your heart against another, because that affects you. Too badly. Nobody is worth my, forgiving them. Nobody is worth having unforgiveness from me. I, I can't, I can't bear that. I'm too old for that, but I don't trust everybody. I love everybody, but I sure enough, don't trust everybody. And so please be clear. We're not saying, uh, forgive and open your doors up to the

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: have

Rev. Michele Owes: yes.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: We're not saying that, but we are [00:23:00] saying that Jesus Christ, the righteous son of God who came and died, bled and died for our sins, he expects us to forgive as God. Our father in heaven has forgiven us.

Rev. Michele Owes: Amen. Amen. And thank you so much for that extra point. Uh, I really had meant to mention it as well, and I'm so glad that you rounded back and caught it and made sure that our listeners received that. Well, Mrs. Cherry, that brings us to the end of this podcast. Was that not wonderful? Right up to it. Uh, and we hope that whatever your challenge may be today, that you remember that you have a God that loves you.

A God who is faithful, A God whose love never fails, who gives you new mercies every morning? Because the mercies that you received yesterday are sufficient foot for today. You got new mercies every morning. He loves you and we love you, and we'll see you [00:24:00] on our next podcast.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Amen. And don't forget to get your copy of my autobiography, Woman Directed By God. It's available at from the Heart Church ministry.org bookstore. I'm doing my best to try to get it online. I don't have a clue, uh, how to get it in Amazon, but I'm doing my best. I'm doing a lot of stuff. I'm back in school and it's just a lot of things on my plate, but anybody who want to come and take a little food off my plate, you are welcome to it.

Just give me a call. God bless you. I love you.

Rev. Michele Owes: All right. Keep us in your prayers as we will keep you in ours.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Amen.