Teachable Woman Podcast

About Marriage – Part 3

Rev. Michele Owes and Tamara Johnson

Rev. Michele Owes: [00:00:00] Welcome, welcome. Welcome back to the Teachable Woman podcast. I am Reverend Michele Owes. I am with Tamara Johnson of Tam I Am, and together today, we are Teachers of Good Things. Tamara, please say hello to our podcast family and friends

Tamara Johnson: Hey, podcast family. I am so happy to be with y'all once again. Thank you, Sister Owes, for inviting me back

Rev. Michele Owes: Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. The last time Tamara and I were together, we were talking about marriage and just sharing some basic concepts about marriage and sharing some of our experiences with you, and we hope that those experiences were helpful. We talked about the fact that oftentimes women want to have a man who has great leadership skills, and we're oftentimes looking for their strong [00:01:00] leadership.

And then we left us with the question of: How was our followship? If a man is trying to lead us, are we willing to follow, or do we find that we resist his instructions and/or his guidance? We also talked about the fact that if we knew that we had some baggage that we came with, that there were some never agains that we had set up in our lives, or ain't nobody ever gonna do this or thus or that to me, and is our husband working against the things that we've set up as fortresses and they have no idea that they're there?

And so we were talking about making sure that there's some good open and honest communication, uh, between the husband and the wife.

Tamara Johnson: I know, yeah

Rev. Michele Owes: And so today we're gonna continue our discussion about marriage. And one of the things that I want to reiterate is that Jesus' first miracle was at a marriage ceremony. [00:02:00] Now, I think that that is telling about how important God finds the marriage.

His first miracle, according to John 2:1, was at a marriage ceremony, and this is where Jesus turned the water into wine. No, let me back up. He turned the water into fine wine, because the guests said that they had saved the best for last, which was the wine that Jesus had, um, made from water. So

Tamara Johnson: know that one. You ain't got to-- They know that one.

Rev. Michele Owes: They know that one.

Tamara Johnson: nothing

Rev. Michele Owes: Okay,

Tamara Johnson: that

Rev. Michele Owes: here's a detail. Here's the detail that sometimes I think we miss. Mary, the, the mother of Jesus, was at the wedding, and when she told Jesus that they did not have any wine, He was telling her, "Hey, I don't have my powers yet, pretty much. Ain't nothing I can do about it." And so then she told the people, "Do whatever He tells you to do."[00:03:00]

Tamara Johnson: All right

Rev. Michele Owes: And so He gave them instructions on what to do with the water, and then He was able to turn the water to wine, and I think that's a piece that we miss. Do whatever He tells you to do.

Tamara Johnson: All right, sis

Rev. Michele Owes: in the marriage, we are, we have our idea of what we want. We have our idea of how we wanna be treated. We have our idea of how it's going to go.

We have an image, but we-- have we stopped to check to see if we've done whatever God said that we need to do about being married?

Tamara Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: I would say that is the same for husbands. Husbands have an idea of how they want the marriage to be. They have an idea of how they want their home to be run. They know what they want their wife to look like when they get there, there.

They, they know what they want her to be wearing when they get there. They know the condition of the home that they wanna find it in. They don't wanna find it dirty and disordered and dishes not washed and clothes all over and ain't nobody picked [00:04:00] up the trash or taken it out. They don't wanna find any of that.

Now, they might create a mess, but they don't wanna find a mess, right? But the key thing, we have to learn to do as the Lord has said about the marriage. And here's, here's the thing we wanna remember. Both of us come into the water with-- uh, come into the marriage with who we are, and we're like water. But if we want that marriage to turn into some fine wine, we're gonna really have to do it God's way

Tamara Johnson: Hey,

Rev. Michele Owes: We have to do it God's way.

We're not gonna be able, right? We gotta do what He says. We're not gonna be able to just walk up in there and command the Lord and turn, "Well, I want my husband to do this for me, and my, my husband better have that, and he better, and he better, and he..." No, you better. You better do what God said. You better.

Listen, we-- Tamara and I were talking last week about how many times we've gone into our closet to complain about our husbands, and we came out with notes of what to do about ourselves. My point is, [00:05:00] God is not gonna work with you on how you can fix your husband. He's gonna work on how you can fix you, and He'll work on the husband, and it'll be the same way when your husband goes to Him about you.

Your husband will not come out with a to-do list about how to correct you. He's gonna get a to-do list about how to correct himself

Tamara Johnson: Amen.

Rev. Michele Owes: All right, jumping

Tamara Johnson: to go pray there. need him to go on, go in there and pray there. Now

Rev. Michele Owes: We all need to pray. Really, prayer is a part of this thing. We can get a whole lot more done with prayer than we can with fussing and cussing and fighting

Tamara Johnson: Oh, amen. I agree to that. That's one thing I do know. Now that I, I don't know if I did, probably did all three at one point. That was a long, long time ago though, but, know, it never got nothing really done.

Rev. Michele Owes: Nothing

Tamara Johnson: just maybe patched up for a little time, but ultimately in the long run, these things will come, come back and resurface in other ways,

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes

Tamara Johnson: in the marriage and come up because we had [00:06:00] not dealt with the source of, of these problems.

Rev. Michele Owes: That's exactly right

Tamara Johnson: so tonight, sister O, or this, even this morning, this whatever y'all listening, what we talking about today? This is why I like recording with you anyway. I, I, I, I love when you bring me in and you, and you always say that we are teachers of good things, but baby, I'm a learner of good things, especially when I'm on... That's why I love to be on here with you, 'cause see, I ain't never looked at that like that because those, the, the, the, um, the important stuff is really in those details. When you said that Mary said that, and those instructions, just do what he say and the results are going to follow. we, we so focused on the miracle and the

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes. Yes

Tamara Johnson: And miss some of the small stuff.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes.

Tamara Johnson: for that.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes.

Tamara Johnson: that

Rev. Michele Owes: praise the Lord. I, I love the fact that the first miracle was at the marriage ceremony and, and that [00:07:00] tells me that-- I mean, just the fact that you and a, and a person that you did not know made it to the altar to become one, that in and of itself is a miracle. How you met, how you crossed paths, what God did to cause you to see each other in a way that you thought you would wanna spend the rest of your life with that person.

And so then you know if, if-- and the Bible refers to it as a mystical union. So you know if, if you have had the opportunity to be drawn together in a mystical union and you've made it to the altar and you've said that, "I do", it can't be nobody but the enemy trying to tear you apart after you made the oath, right?

After you took the vow.

Tamara Johnson: Yes,

Rev. Michele Owes: And so he's busy 24/7 remembering who we was, what we used to do, how we used to act, and, and you know, his, his job is to steal, is to kill, and to destroy. And your marriage is not exempt from that. Your relationship with your spouse is not exempt from that. He wants [00:08:00] to steal your peace, your joy, your love, your excitement to be with one another, your hope for your marriage and your family.

He wants to, he wants to steal all of that. Then he wants to kill the, the passion and, and kill the care for one another and kill the respect and destroy what God has put together. And so we have to watch out for those kinds of things. But as I was saying, what is so exciting is that God allowed that first miracle to happen at the wedding ceremony.

And so if we do as He says, we can see how God can turn the water of our marriage into wine. I mean, fine wine. And as time went on with my husband and I, and, and I can attest to this in my own marriage, we just became-- Y- you don't become one overnight. The Bible says the two shall become one flesh. And so

you, you come together enough to know that you want to be together, but the real coming [00:09:00] together comes over time when you've, when you've overcome some obstacles, when you've, you've learned to walk through the fire together, when you've learned to stick together through tough times and when, when he's down, you've learned the encouraging words from God, and you've gone to encourage him and, and then you set up an atmosphere of peace so that he can move forward, and the same for you, vice versa.

So, you know, the, the oneness, the real oneness comes through the trials and the tribulations. It's not the easy, "Oh, I love him. He loves me. You know, we have great intimate time together, and oh, I love sex time." And you know, it's way, way beyond.

Tamara Johnson: Mm-hmm. And also being on one accord is not, um, agreeing with, agreeing on everything. That's not

Rev. Michele Owes: That's

Tamara Johnson: saying. Oh, we need to come, you know, on one accord and agree about everything. We have different personalities, we have different strengths, we have different pre- preferences. But, um, when we say one accord, it's just knowing that we're on the same team, and every [00:10:00] time we disagree, we're not threatening our covenant.

Rev. Michele Owes: Right

Tamara Johnson: threatened about somebody leaving just because we disagree. It

Rev. Michele Owes: Right.

Tamara Johnson: be like,

"Okay, we disagree. Oh, I'm headed out the door," every time you look around. That's not, you know, one accord-ness,

Rev. Michele Owes: No, that's not. And that's not the commitment that you made at the altar in sickness and in health and all of those times that you said you would. That's if it's not going my way, I'm bouncing. And for the women that I know, and even the men that I know who did that, in hindsight, they, they regret it. They really wish that they had chosen another option, that they would have

Tamara Johnson: right

Rev. Michele Owes: to stay and to work on the things that needed to be worked on because, uh, marriage is our agreement to be with an imperfect person.

It's a choice that we make. And we've learned that nobody is perfect, but somehow once we get married, we feel like [00:11:00] our spouse should perfectly know us, that they should know what to do, know what we thinking, know how we wanna be treated, know how we want the house to go, know how we want the bank account to be, know how we want...

N- no.

Tamara Johnson: Yeah

Rev. Michele Owes: know anything, and neither do you really because you haven't known each other through as many tough times or difficult times or, or good times. And, and so there's, there's just, there a period of becoming one

Tamara Johnson: Yeah. And

Rev. Michele Owes: as you go through the journey

Tamara Johnson: learning to, uh, become one and learning to be on one accord is such a beautiful

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes.

Tamara Johnson: because you

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes

Tamara Johnson: to see yourself grow. You start to see your husband grow. You start to see that there's less and less disagreements. You start to be angry a lot less.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes.

Tamara Johnson: so you don't carry it for two, three weeks like you used to and bring it, circle it back when, when another one

Rev. Michele Owes: Listen, one of the things

Tamara Johnson: you [00:12:00] get mad, you start talking about, "Now you remember I told you to do that?" And, "Oh, you got a long list of stuff," what you did

Rev. Michele Owes: extra bedrooms, you know you in trouble 'cause I'm going to one.

Tamara Johnson: Oh man. Oh

Rev. Michele Owes: but listen, that is not--

Tamara Johnson: remember, I

Rev. Michele Owes: should not

Tamara Johnson: I remember sleeping, you know, in another room, not because I wanted to, 'cause I wanted to be with my husband, right? But I was, I was gonna show you something. I'm gonna go upstairs and sleep with my kids. Oh, I knew, because I knew he hated that.

I

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah. Yeah.

Tamara Johnson: that, and I wanted to show him how really mad I was. one thing I was never bold to do, now some of y'all sisters out there might be bold, was to leave and sleep somewhere else. I wasn't gonna never play with him like that. I can't play like that. I don't know if you will, but I know I won't.

we gonna talk about the pleasant, the unpleasant, and the purpose of marriage. We supposed to be talking about what's good, what's,

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes,

Tamara Johnson: about it the

Rev. Michele Owes: will.

Tamara Johnson: what We,

don't [00:13:00] like

Rev. Michele Owes: we gonna absolutely get there. I wanna share this funny story. Uh, when my husband and I first got married, we, um, we had a five-bedroom home and we had w- we really bought the house for the, all the furniture that we had 'cause we had two full household coming, coming together. But we didn't have nobody to fill up all the rooms, right?

We were just trying to maintain all the furniture that we-- I had my furniture, he had his furniture. Okay, silly, but it was our thought, right?

Tamara Johnson: Right

Rev. Michele Owes: lo- long story short, one, one evening I was just not happy with my husband and so I decided that I was gonna go sleep in another room. And I went to the, the, the f- first room and next thing I know he comes in and squeezes in behind me in the next room.

And, and so I get up to go to the next room and, you know, w- I've gone to every room and he has come and he's like, "The devil is not gonna get in between me and my wife. Now you can be mad, but we're not gonna sleep apart." And so by the time I got to the last room, all I could do was [00:14:00] just laugh and say, "Leave me alone.

Please leave me alone."

But look, I never, I never tried to sleep in another room. He's like, "No, we are not doing this. We are not gonna start it." He said, "Wherever you go, I am going because we are in this together." And I mean, he was just talking the talk and I was just trying to bring that old worldly, I'm mad at you, I ain't gotta talk to you thing in the marriage.

And he was letting me know I'm not having that.

Tamara Johnson: Amen

Rev. Michele Owes: I'm not having that. You can scoot over or not, but I'm gonna make room for me in this bed. Whichever one you in, I am in. So husband, let hus- husbands, let that be a lesson to you. Um, don't allow it. Amen. Don't allow it.

Tamara Johnson: hear ya.

Rev. Michele Owes: All right. Now Hebrews 13:4 says that marriage is honorable, which means that then it says in all and the bed undefiled, but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

So honorable means valuable. So to God, marriage is valuable. To that,

Tamara Johnson: yo

Rev. Michele Owes: it also means it is esteemed and is precious. And [00:15:00] if we have a day where we're not considering our marriage to be esteemed or, or, or precious or valuable or costly, then we're not thinking like God is thinking about the marriage. So we just need to back ourselves up and get where He is.

But from here, what, what Tamara and I are gonna share with you are some of our favorite things about being married, and then we'll talk about some of our least favorite. All right. Take it away

Tamara Johnson: Okay, look. What, what I'm starting off with least,

Rev. Michele Owes: The fa- the most, the favorite. We gonna start with the favorite.

Tamara Johnson: okay. So, um, I love that I don't have to do life alone, right? I have somebody that I have a little bit of history with. It's just knowing that I have somebody that is just as committed to me as I am to him, you know? And just knowing that I don't have to, you know, worry about him stepping out or, you know, these are just not my thoughts.

He

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes

Tamara Johnson: made me feel secure enough in the way that [00:16:00] he moves and him just being over these 17 years, just being where he said he was gonna be. Like, there's

Rev. Michele Owes: Amen.

Tamara Johnson: you know, off mileage or nothing. I ain't got to put no tracker on the phone. You know some people track good mileage now just to see.

They know our ... The

Rev. Michele Owes: She said all the mileage.

Tamara Johnson: man can't

Rev. Michele Owes: Who checks the mileage? But okay

Tamara Johnson: All right, now you might not know nothing about that. I'm, I'm speaking for the ones

Rev. Michele Owes: I know.

Tamara Johnson: do. No, I'm just saying there is beauty in having someone, uh, who knows your history,

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah

Tamara Johnson: what, what you've been through and some of your past hurts just as a young girl or a teenager or even a young woman.

They, they know these things, right? And so I just think it's good to just somebody, with you. So that's one of my favorite parts, parts about it. It's just the years together. You- we just don't simply live in the same home. You know, we have a rich history.

Rev. Michele Owes: Amen.

Tamara Johnson: I do like that.

Rev. Michele Owes: That's beautiful. I think one of my [00:17:00] favorite things about being married is the fact that my husband chose me

Tamara Johnson: Yeah. Yeah

Rev. Michele Owes: you know, the scriptures say that we didn't choose God, He chose us.

Tamara Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Rev. Michele Owes: And, um, my husband chose me in spite of all of my flaws, my problems, my history, my, my baggage, my tools, what I knew, what I didn't know, what, what he had to teach me and, and to make sure that I could learn what he needed to teach me. So I, I like the fact that he chose me, and sometimes I wonder if we overlook how unique and precious it is to love someone that loves you.

You know? And many of us, before our, our husbands, we either had friendships with or relationships with people that we loved, but we knew that it was one-sided, and so that didn't last. But to, to get into a relationship where [00:18:00] someone else is willing to invest in you the way that you are willing to invest in them, but make sure that God is the head of all that you do, I don't know if we know how beautiful and how rare that is.

And so

Tamara Johnson: Lord

Rev. Michele Owes: I, love the fact that my husband chose me, um, like my heavenly Father chose me, and he was willing to be committed to me in the midst of all of my, my trials and my flaws and my... You know, because again, marriage is being committed to an imperfect person, and, and I'm imperfect, and I recognize that.

But he was able to love me through my imperfections. And I only say was because he is no longer here, because if he were here, we'd still be together, I'm sure. I wouldn't be letting him go anywhere.

Tamara Johnson: I know that's right. I

Rev. Michele Owes: Wherever he's going, I'm going with you.

Tamara Johnson: know that's right. Amen. Amen. I

Rev. Michele Owes: So what else is some of your favorites?

Tamara Johnson: Um, I [00:19:00] love, uh, the grace that we have in our marriage. It's not about, uh, keeping score over here with us. Uh, we don't, we don't keep score. I love that during different seasons, can just think back over these, over these years that there has been times where I had to carry a heavier load than him, and he had to carry a heavier load, you know, than I did.

It was just a season that we were

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes

Tamara Johnson: so I was willing to do so, whatever it took, because this was my partner, you know

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah.

Tamara Johnson: This

was my husband, and I want, you know, to make things lighter for him, considering the fact that he's out in the world and he's a Black man and different things like that.

So I wanted to do that. So I love that we don't, we don't score keep. "Oh, last week, you know, I picked the kids up seven times and, and you ain't even run 'em nowhere. I keep going to practice and da, da, da, da, da."

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah

Tamara Johnson: don't do that. We come together as a partnership and do what needs to be done, because I [00:20:00] understand that it's not easy for our Black men here in America as we would like it to be.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah

Tamara Johnson: he's up against just the adversary in general

or, you know, at his job or wherever it is, I

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah.

Tamara Johnson: that the

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah

Tamara Johnson: wants to attack him more than myself.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes

Tamara Johnson: if there are seasons where I have to pick up more of a load in whatever ar- area, whether it be financial, whether it be with my kids in the household, whatever it may be, I'm willing, you know, to do such,

Rev. Michele Owes: Amen

Tamara Johnson: And so whatever he needs in that season, I'm willing to do. So that's another thing that I love about being married to my husband. It's just the grace, um, that we give one another. In, in, in Galatians, it tells us that we are to bear with one another in love,

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah.

Tamara Johnson: us.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah

Tamara Johnson: and him. That ain't, like you say, it ain't just for your church members.

These scriptures is between you and your husband, 'cause what I realized, Sister O, is that he's not just [00:21:00] my husband. He is, he is a child of God, and even more than that, he's my brother in Christ,

Rev. Michele Owes: Mm-hmm.

Tamara Johnson: you know? And so I have to bear with him in love no matter what that looks like.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes. Yes. I, I believe that learning how to care for our husbands in the way that we should is extremely important. The scriptures talk about the fact that in, in Proverbs that it is better to be in the corner of a rooftop than to be in the house with a brawling woman, meaning a loud, cantankerous. Yeah, that, that kind of things that really just destroys the tone of the home and the peace in which a person lives.

I, I love the fact that in 33 years of marriage, my children never once heard my husband and I argue, raise their voices, our voices, or be disagreeable with one another.

Tamara Johnson: Oh,

Rev. Michele Owes: we had [00:22:00] listen, we,

Tamara Johnson: for y'all.

Rev. Michele Owes: we have had, uh, some what we would call passionate discussions, but it was-- My husband was smart and he knew how to plan those.

It would be like, "Okay, we're going on a bike ride this Saturday. We will talk about everything we need to talk about then." Because we knew not to, you

Tamara Johnson: that

Rev. Michele Owes: get, get into things when we were angry or, or, or really upset and... Or sometimes we would go for a drive or we would go for a walk and we would discuss the things, uh, that we needed to discuss, but we would always pray first.

Now, it didn't mean that he was perfect and it didn't mean that I was perfect, but we were always looking for the perfect time to have the right discussions to settle in on the things that we needed to. And, and we had family meetings and, you know, we always prayed before those family meetings that God would guide our hearts and our minds and, and, uh, and our tongues.

And so, uh, that is something I am, am very, very proud of the fact that we... Now, I'm not saying we didn't ever wanna say something, but I am saying that we knew better [00:23:00] because we knew that God was working on something. But we also really believed that our children should grow up in a peaceful household. We just deeply believed that children should grow up in a household of peace,

Tamara Johnson: Yeah,

Rev. Michele Owes: they should not see their parents fussing and cussing and fighting and, and, and we calling the police and we moving in and we're moving out and we're moving out and we're moving in.

We just believed that our children deserved better than that because they didn't ask to be here, and so we governed ourselves accordingly. Uh, the scriptures say that we should, um, study to be quiet. And I would often, when I was getting ready to say something, I would say, "I know the scriptures say study to be quiet.

I haven't finished my study yet, but I wanna say this."

But I could, you know, I could tell if it wasn't landing well, it was like, "Okay, now it's just time to be quiet," you know? And our communication had become so great that my husband could just look at me and do the [00:24:00] slightest nod or the slightest left to the right to let me know, "Uh-uh, don't even start that conversation.

Don't say this to the children. Don't, don't..." You know, just, he could just give me the slightest look, and I knew exactly what it meant, and I would govern myself accordingly, and vice versa. I could look at him and do the same, and he knew that that would, "Uh-uh, not, not now or later." And so we knew we respected each other, uh, in that regard

Tamara Johnson: I think that that was, um, a very wise decision to do so because, baby, I done gotta look. I'm gonna say what I wanna say when I wanna say it 'cause I'm grown. You see what I'm saying? And

Rev. Michele Owes: I understand

Tamara Johnson: what Proverbs says about every wise woman building her house,

but the foolish plucking it down with her own

Rev. Michele Owes: With her own hand

Tamara Johnson: marriage is already gonna face a whole lot of stuff

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes. Right

Tamara Johnson: And, and, and I'm not trying to give men a pass because they,

they also have a [00:25:00] responsibility to love and to lead a certain way. So when we are starting to speak about us being wise and not tearing down, you know, our, our, our, our house with our hands, we're not, you know, coming against you or nothing and saying that, "Oh, well my husband this, that, and the other."

We just know that there are a lot of

things that a marriage can, um, suffer from.

Rev. Michele Owes: That's right

Tamara Johnson: there are circumstances that you may control and not control, but what you can is not tearing it down with

your own hands

Rev. Michele Owes: That's right.

Tamara Johnson: foolish.

Rev. Michele Owes: That's right

Tamara Johnson: having that wisdom to know this is not the time and this is not the place, you know, for, for us to have this conversation, I think was just wise on your part

Rev. Michele Owes: I, you shared something with me and I would love for you to share it with our podcast family and friends. You shared something about what you learned from your child about how to love and welcome your husband. Will you share that with [00:26:00] us now?

Tamara Johnson: Yeah, I will. So when, because so much that happens, right? And we know that tomorrow is not promised and all of these things. Anytime my husband comes home and I hear the garage door opening up or I hear that he's on the way with our security system or seeing that bag in on the camera, whatever it is, it's just a beautiful feeling to do so.

But I do remember when my daughter was younger, her father would come through the door, and every time her father came through the door, she would run and scream, "Daddy's home. Daddy's home." And there would be so much joy on both of their faces,

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah

Tamara Johnson: just loved that for her. And I-- the next time he pulled in and walked through the door, I beat her to it. Yes, I did. I ran right over there. They, everybody was [00:27:00] looking, baby, I'm sliding and everything, huh? "How you doing, baby? I'm so glad that you're at home." She taught me, you

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes

Tamara Johnson: it's not that I wasn't excited to see my husband, I... She was showing it,

that she was.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah

Tamara Johnson: it was just a warm feeling for everybody.

Like, "What's going on, baby? You ain't finna outdo me. This my husband. Huh? This my husband. I ain't finna let her outdo me. No, ma'am. I got it. I got it today. I got it today."

Rev. Michele Owes: I love it. I absolutely love it. Now let, ladies, let that be a lesson to you. Don't, don't let your husband come home and you got the face like you just, you know, you just sucked on a lemon or you done had some horseradish or something. Just love the man when he comes home, and you'll be surprised by making an adjustment in who you are and how you respond to him, how you'll be making an adjustment in your entire marriage.

Well, my goodness, Tamara, our time for today has, [00:28:00] it's come. And so what, you know what that means. It means we just have to have another episode. So would you come back and join us again?

Tamara Johnson: yeah,

Rev. Michele Owes: Okay.

Tamara Johnson: talk about what we don't like.

Rev. Michele Owes: No, we didn't.

Tamara Johnson: We just talked about the things that we do like. You know, I was waiting on... No,

Rev. Michele Owes: I

Tamara Johnson: kidding.

Rev. Michele Owes: we got a long list of what we don't like, right?

Tamara Johnson: I'm just mess- I'm just messing around. But I

Rev. Michele Owes: No, that's human nature. That is the human element

Tamara Johnson: it gives us a opportunity, uh, to confront some things when we

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah

Tamara Johnson: about some of the things that we don't like.

The most of the things that we don't like actually helps us grow.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes

Tamara Johnson: I'm looking forward to coming back.

Rev. Michele Owes: All right.

Tamara Johnson: I'm coming back. I'm

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah.

Tamara Johnson: I'm looking forward

to coming

Rev. Michele Owes: you coming back. All right.

Tamara Johnson: forward

Rev. Michele Owes: we will continue. Uh, but thank you so much for being with us today. I know you're really busy, and we appreciate you taking time for us. Thank you podcast family for being with us. Please listen, re-listen, and share the [00:29:00] podcast. Don't forget to

Tamara Johnson: sure, sure

Rev. Michele Owes: subscribe at @teachablewoman, uh, on YouTube, and also subscribe to our podcast.

All right, we love you. See you on the next one. Bye

Tamara Johnson: Bye