About Marriage - Part 6

Teachable Woman Podcast

Reverends Michele Owes and Diana P. Cherry

About Marriage – Part 6

Rev. Michele Owes: [00:00:00] Welcome. Welcome to the Teachable Woman podcast. We are excited about today's lesson and excited about being with you. I am Reverend Michelle Oates. I am with Reverend Mrs. Deanna P. Cherry, and together we are teachers of good things. Mrs. Cherry, please say hello

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: family. My prayer is that you have enjoyed this day that we call Labor Day when all of us are free from the labor of our jobs. I don't understand it, but I pray that you've had a good one.

Rev. Michele Owes: That is exactly what it is. most of us got free from the labor of the job, right? There were other places having sales and somebody had to be there so we could buy what they were selling. but I t- I tell you, it is such a blessing just to have a moment and to have a day off. And so we do thank God for this Labor Day that Mrs.Cherry and I are able to be together with [00:01:00] you. We are still in our About Marriage series, and some of us might be considering marriage labor. Miss Cherry, what would you say about that?

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: What I would say is make sure you are prepared. Do you choose to be institutionalized with an imperfect person for the rest of your life without the possibility of parole?

Rev. Michele Owes: No parole, right? No parole in this. we are excited about that. We've learned a lot about marriage though. We learned that God considers marriage an honorable state, so that we should consider our marriage an honorable state as well. We learned that when a man marries a woman, he is to leave his family and to cleave to his wife.

We learned that it is the man who must find the wife, that we should not be the [00:02:00] person looking for the husband. That's not our job. We are out of position, and when we are out of position, we're going to waste time and energy and emotion. But it is he that findeth a wife, that findeth a good thing. So we can put on patience and wait to be found.

We also learned that in this married state, that we should love, respect, and honor one another a- according to the will of the Lord. And today we're going to talk about, something that is not talked about often, which is submitting yourselves one to another. And so the scriptures tell us that we are to submit ourselves one to another in the fear of God.

That's Ephesians 5 and 21. I want to read that again. Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. And so [00:03:00] when women think about submitting, we feel like it means that somebody just gets to boss us around all day long and, we are under their thumb. Very negative connotation. But that's not really what that means.

submitting in the original language means to be under and to be subjected to. So I like to look at it this way. If you were walking down the street and danger was coming, would you want to be the one out front or would you want there to be some protection?

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: look at it

Rev. Michele Owes: And one of the things that I absolutely miss, from the death of my husband is his protection, from just the, some of the basic things of life that I never even knew had to be dealt with because he did it. and the protection of his prayers, the protection of his physical presence, a man being in the house, all of those kinds of things.

But the Bible says that we should [00:04:00] submit ourselves one to another, understanding what the needs are of each other, the requests that not only God makes of us, but that we make of one another in genuine communion with one another. If there's something that your husband doesn't care for that you do, you're going to submit yourself to that request and do something different.

If it's not glorifying God, just do something better. And the same way husbands for the wives, because we have to live together peaceably according to the word of God. And if we don't want there always to be some nonsense going on, let's submit ourselves one to another in the fear of God, knowing that we're allowing the word of God to govern our relationship, to govern our attitudes, to govern our conversation.

Easier said than done, but really peaceful when it is done. [00:05:00] Miss Cherry, hop in and help.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Oh, what you, what you want me to help you with? You are so right. You are so right. the problem with submission is not submission, it's that we... It has been mistaught.

Rev. Michele Owes: And, for

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: years men Taught so many things in error from the word of God. s- so a lot of women have grown up... some of us went through that, what do you call it?

Women's lib And,

a lot of women considered that, now it's my time to... he ain't going to tell me what to do." But that's because submission has just been retaught, just gave a beautiful description of submission. Would you... The sky's getting ready to fall down, and you want to be the one out the door first to receive the sky falling.

And,

you painted a beauti- beautiful picture of the protection of submission. I think that [00:06:00] a lot of us had a better understanding of what submission is how good it feels to be protected and to be

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: protective covering of the husband, I believe that we would indeed change our mindsets. But we have to get away from the, movement of the, would that have been the '70s, The '70s and the '80s, the women's lib stuff. need to get away from that. And one of the things I love about our ministry is the fact that we're just so scriptural based, that it dis- dispels so many of the myths we had, been exposed to and had believed in our heart that now it's our time to be,

Rev. Michele Owes: so

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: refreshing to hear you say the fact what your husband's protection meant to you and how comfortable, you felt under that. and that's the same way I felt. There's nothing like [00:07:00] knowing my husband wasn't a huge guy. He couldn't have protected me from any kind of a big old guy. but he... I

Rev. Michele Owes: I bet he could have. Go on

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: me through prayer, and that's the best protection,

Rev. Michele Owes: Amen.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: you're covered by,

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: of someone. And I often think now,

Rev. Michele Owes: in fact, sometimes I'll say, "John, did you pray about this before you left?" knowing that if he did, it's still in operation, and praying that he did pray about it before he left. But, that's a

Yes. Yes

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: and we should not look at it as some kind of a burden or something that's difficult to do. It's very

easy to do. And when you

it's such a, it's a comfortable state to

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: knowing that you're covered, not just by the blood of Jesus Christ, but in the natural realm. If you're married, you should be covered by the protection of your husband's prayers. his attention to

those [00:08:00] details that we don't have any clue about what to

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: do.

Rev. Michele Owes: Absolutely. I think, one of the things that I remembered in my relationship is that if I was having a discussion with our children, and they're in their young adult years, there was a way that my husband just used to look at me and close his eyes and do like a, just like a, a quarter of an inch no.

Shake his head from left to right. He was letting me know it was time to end that conversation because I seem not to know when to end it.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: woman does. Don't feel bad

Rev. Michele Owes: And he was trying to tell me when to end it, when to stop, particularly with young males. and I missed that. I really missed that. and it was so subtle, and it was always just between he and I. And then I would know how to [00:09:00] say, "Okay, I'm going to leave it here

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Right

Rev. Michele Owes: know you have it from here."

I would-- and that's just how it would end it. I'm going to leave it here. Because my husband was protecting me and I was submitting to his protection. And it was, he was preventing blowups. He was helping me to understand that a young man needs, room in a way that you don't think 'cause you're not a young man.

How about that, Michelle? And, And, you have to give the children some room to grow. There are going to be some mistakes made. There are going to be some misunderstandings. And the Holy Ghost has a job, and it's not yours. So all of that, I got all of that in that closing of the eye, in that little quarter of an inch shake of the head from, to the left and right, just between he and I.

Nobody else saw it. He wasn't rude. He wasn't disrespectful. He didn't say, "Woman, be quiet." He didn't say, "Go shut up and sit down somewhere." It was none of that kind of talk. But because [00:10:00] we had those momentary seconds and I knew what it meant for him, then I knew what to do. And so when we say submitting ourselves one to another, you have to be able to look well into the ways of your household, look well into the ways of your husband, and if there's something that you do that displeases him, you need to know how to leave it there.

You need to know when to leave it there. Now, Mrs. Cherry and I don't want to , we don't want to appear one-sided, as though the women have all the work to do and the women need to, better themselves and change themselves. But what we are saying is if you will allow God to work with you, you'll see that God will work with him.

Because you're not going to be able to fix your husband. You're not going to be able to mold him into who you think you need him to be. because I promise you, what you think you need is really not what you need. a- and who we thought we needed is really not what we needed. But it's who God makes [00:11:00] them, that's exactly what we need.

And so we have to give God some room, and we have to submit to who God is making them. and I say absolutely no name-calling. No name-calling

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: And no cursing.

Great

Rev. Michele Owes: These are the kinds of things that damage, the level of re- the level of respect that your husband believes you have for him. and that, that kind of damage, you don't rebuild that easily. It's, it's like that toothpaste squeezing it out. You don't ever get it all back in. You get some, but you don't get it all back in.

And we've learned in ministry that respect gives love longevity. And the Bible tells the woman to see to it that she reverences her husband, which is respects him. But he also tells the husband to love the wife. And I find that so interesting that he does not tell the husband to respect the wife.

He [00:12:00] tells the husband to love the wife. Because if the wife feels loved, she's going to respect the husband, and the respect that he gets gives the love longevity. And it's a thing. We all have to obey the part of the, the fight that's-- or do the part of the fight that's ours. And so we have to work on that respect.

We gotta work on it with our mouths,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: our neck rolls,

yeah.

Rev. Michele Owes: our eyeballs rolling up in the air

and with our tone

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: gets respect, or if the husband loves the woman, then it will just maximize a positive response from her,

Rev. Michele Owes: because we respond to love. We respond to kindness. Yes, we do

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: be nasty. There's no value in that. it's easy to just, as my

mother would say, fly off the handle. But husbands, if your wives are not giving you [00:13:00] the, respect that you feel that you, deserve, it might be that you have to earn it by being kind to her, because she is a responder.

Rev. Michele Owes: is an interesting cre- creature. If you give her a bad word, w- we receive, we're receivers. We receive your seed. We give birth to babies because y- we received your seed. And if you give us a nasty word, just like that seed of that baby grows on the inside of us, that seed of that nasty word will grow in us, we will shoot it back at you, and we will give you something that will

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: make you say, "My God, where did that come from?" it's the seed that you've given us, and we have reproduced it after your

Rev. Michele Owes: Right?

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: That's-

Rev. Michele Owes: So they blew a little bit of wind and got a tornado back is what we're saying.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: it's important for men and women to know that, we can't change one [00:14:00] another, but we can change ourselves, in us can effect a change in the other person. But that's why it's so important to get counsel before you marry. and don't be afraid in counsel to bring up things, because once you're married, you are going to be intimidated to bring things up. And counsel- counseling is like an opportunity just to be free. Let %it all hang out, 'cause

Yes.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: that's the

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: of your life to let it all out. I wish I had counseling

before we got married.

I had a half-hour session. you gotta put your money together, and you know it's going to be hard, and there are going to be some good days, and there are going to be some good or bad days. But you have to, you have to just stick together and work it out, and it'll be all right. Hey, that's not counsel.

in counseling, please be bold. Please share what your thoughts are.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Please answer those [00:15:00] questions that your counselor gives you. Answer them honestly from the bottom of your heart. if

you see things that bother you before you get married, they are going to be multiplied after you get married. I've had, things, I've had counsel sessions where a person did not like, toothpaste.

It made them sick. They just didn't like it. And so they, were a person who, let's say maybe just gargle mou- just use mouthwash. you need to know that before you get married, 'cause, I don't care how much you gargle, it's not going to get rid of, So whatever it is, it might seem insignificant now, and you might deceive yourself into saying, "Oh, it's not so bad.

I can put up with it." But you can't. will not be able to. If you

have someone who slurps at their food all the time, you know, you're going to ... That's going to be such an irritant to you that you're going to , "Why didn't I see this [00:16:00] before I got married?" You did, but you blinded yourself to it. You shut it off.

You didn't want to see it. You didn't want to hear that slurping, and you know it was there before you married him. There's no way you're going to go through months and months of dating and not know that the way somebody eats irritates you. there are people who are really noisy eaters, that would've, that would just end, premarital counseling for me.

Rev. Michele Owes: There are some countries that making noise while you eat is a sign that you enjoy the food and it is really acceptable.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: them.

Rev. Michele Owes: and it, look, it, look, if you are already married, just remind yourself that in some countries

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: also remember

Rev. Michele Owes: this is acceptable. In some countries

odor is considered sexy, Oh boy, that is true.

it's kind of a animalistic instincts 'cause the animals love odor. But, yeah, But [00:17:00] Ugh.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: call of the wild.

is, the point that we're making is don't go into a marriage knowing that you have things that are irritants to you now, because in marriage it might be just a tiny little splinter in your finger, but when you get

married, it's going to be like you have

broken a finger, you've broken a joint.

it's just different

because you see everything about your mate, everything. Be- because the two became one, and now that's no longer

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes. Yes.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: he's representing me as

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: like that,

Rev. Michele Owes: It's ours

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: And, we're embarrassed by it.

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: But when you're not married, what they

Rev. Michele Owes: Yeah

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: embarrass you. But if it concerns you, speak up now or forever hold your peace.

Rev. Michele Owes: Speak up. Wait. Or forever. Now that's a thought. They tell you to forever [00:18:00] hold your peace if you didn't say anything about it before the wedding. some of us, it's time to start talking now. you don't want to forever have to hold your peace on this matter. You want to be able to get it out in the open and work that baby out.

Listen, love, being loved by someone that loves you is a beautiful experience in this earthly realm that God allows us to have as a husband and a wife. And we don't want the little foxes to spoil the vine, but we don't want the little foxes to add up and not ever be addressed. And so don't spend thousands of dollars on the wedding, and you have not spent a moment to discuss the slurping or the dry feet or the flossing.

You need to floss with brushing of the teeth or, I really don't like the cologne that you wear. I think you-- it's way [00:19:00] too strong. You need something a little softer. You need something that works with your body chemistry. And, one of the things that, I used to share, it doesn't matter what cologne my husband likes.

If I don't like it, it makes no sense for him to wear it. I am the only one who's going to be nuzzling up against your neck. And so if you like it and everybody else like it, and I think it smells bad, I-- it doesn't matter. You cannot wear that cologne, right? Same way with your perfume choices

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: story that, that's true in my life right this minute. I have a bottle my husband's, my favorite cologne for my husband, once in a while I'll go

to the, medicine cabinet and I'll just spray a little bit and it's it's just brings back the greatest memories. I'll just stand there and smell it, close my eyes, and just remember, that bottle of cologne is so important to me now, and I will [00:20:00] hold onto it for the rest of my life.

I

Rev. Michele Owes: spray

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: It's a lot left.

Rev. Michele Owes: so the,

those, the glands that we use to smell, they do, they bring back beautiful memories. They either bring a thought of pleasure or pleasantness or things that are unpleasant. And a, an unpleasant smell, there's nothing romantic about it. Even if it is a very expensive perfume and/or cologne, the cost of it does not matter.

It is what works with your body chemistry and then what the person that you love wants to be able to enjoy smelling on you. So I don't care if it is Yves Saint Laurent or whoever, if it smells like Pepe Le Pew to your wife or your, vice versa, your husband, it doesn't matter who made it. They don't like it,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: Find something else. Give it to somebody. Sell it on eBay. But, make sure that [00:21:00] you are really paying attention. You are submitting yourselves one to another. If your husband says, "I really don't like that perfume," don't just be hardheaded and wear it. Submit to his recommendation to you. Saying that he's not fond of it, that is the nicest way to tell you, "Baby, get something else 'cause I don't want to smell this on you."

Rev. Michele Owes: So just do it, the things that you know that he does not like. And you are not, quote, "changing yourself to get along with somebody else." That's not what this is. This is a way of respecting who he is and respecting what he wants from you as his wife

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: is, we talk about the fact that we shouldn't enter marriage with, unknown but it's just as dangerous and, really to enter the marriage with known knowns. You know very well what

Rev. Michele Owes: Okay.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: the irritant is. You know very well that you [00:22:00] don't like the

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: that your husband, your fiancé is spending. know that you are planning and scheming that once we get married, I'm taking the checkbook. If it's not

dealt with on this side of marriage, whether it's a known

Rev. Michele Owes: That's right

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: known, it is a potential marriage wrecker. And, so you know, as we're talking to you, we're just talking lightheartedly really about things that

are very serious, and we need to, deal with these things while we have an opportunity to deal with them before we step into the institution. 'Cause when you step into the institution, they lock the door and throw away the key.

Rev. Michele Owes: Now it is possible if you have not yet said I do, to go to counseling for this matter, even though you may have been through premarital and maybe there were some things that you did not know at the time or weren't really paying attention to because you were so busy [00:23:00] gazing into his eyes while he was gazing into yours.

But if you, if there's been a little bit of sanity and clarity that has come to light before you say I do, there's absolutely nothing wrong with first talking to your partner about it and then the two of you going to counseling. And as we've said before, if you are already married, run to marriage enrichment every time the church offers the class or, the marriage retreat.

Don't walk, run. Make all preparation and make sure that you are there. and also married couples can, seek counseling as well, from your local church. So be sure to not just leave it there to fuss and cuss and fight about,

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: of the,

Rev. Michele Owes: greatest experiences that I had, at the time I cried in the council session. I was so concerned about the bride. there was a time that my husband told a couple "I can't marry you." That wedding dress had [00:24:00] been bought. The date was out. It was like two weeks. It was like right before their, one-on-ones, or it might have been their one-on-ones. And I knew he was going to tell them, because he did not get a release from God, and he was strong enough to say to that couple, "I don't know why. I don't know every reason why, but you probably do, but God will not release me to marry you." I cried. I think of another young minister who was on staff at that time.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: She cried. not openly, but we were heartbroken. My husband had the, spiritual fortitude and the mental toughness to do that my husband was teaching a series called The Family Man, and he told my, He told this young man, he says, "I don't know why I'm not able to marry you, but I want you to sit down front every Sunday while I'm teaching this series, [00:25:00] I'm confident that God will speak to your heart." The bridesmaids and every- everything was set. It was, like, two weeks before the wedding. that couple obeyed, and they sat down front every, every week. at the end of the series, I think, they called for an appointment, and they came in, and he said to my husband, "I know exactly why God said that He would not allow you to marry us, and the...

I needed to hear The Family Man series, this has been a blessing to

me." He says, "We're ready to get married now, anytime you're ready to marry us." lady had a very small, sensible wedding. She used her dress. She had, instead of maybe having six or, six or eight women, she had maybe two or three women who were very important to her, likewise for him. It was one of the most [00:26:00] beautiful weddings that you've ever seen in our church. That couple is still married. Her mother was the mother of the church back in the beginning of the ministry, and

I talked to her when her

mom died not too long ago. We had the service at the church and all, and I mentioned again about that, and she was saying to me that it's the best thing that ever happened to them.

They don't live in this area anymore. she said, they are fine.

They have a wonderful marriage. And yeah, you just

Rev. Michele Owes: Oh, that's beautiful

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: you just... all the ways we should obey God without complete understanding. I have so much respect for my husband and his ability to just do what God said Without reservation, without hesitation, without knowing, without full understanding, he just obeyed.

Same thing when we, when God spoke to his heart about closing the Christian school back in the [00:27:00] day. there are not many people in the ministry or in life who are strong enough to obey God when it goes totally contrary to what you want, to what you think, and even

to what you desire. But one of the things I'll always be proud of is the spiritual tenacity my husband to obey when it

was not easy, it was not comfortable, but he did what was right, and he did not try to do what he thought was right, but he did what was right, and he never, ever considered who is right in a situation. So that's another important thing to know in your marriage. Always seek what's right. What's right will never change, but who is right might change over the years. But if we just seek to

do what's right, we'll always have the best outcome for our lives, for our marriages, and for our families[00:28:00]

Rev. Michele Owes: That is true. And there is no prize for who is right. There is always just the reward for what is right and both of you doing it. and I wanted to share that I am, for that couple, I think probably what had to be really beautiful for them was for the founding Episcopal pastor to say, "I don't know why God won't release me."

Not to try to come up with something or say you doing this or you doing that, but just to say, "I don't know why." and that is clear, right? That I don't know. and I think that helps people to think that the issues of their lives truly is between them and God, and it's between them and God to work out.

and it's a personal private matter that if you will walk through this and obey the known instructions, that God can work it out. And I think the beauty of this is that God did not deny, He delayed,

He didn't deny, [00:29:00] He delayed. and oftentimes we consider, when God says no, that it's just a denial, but it could just simply be a delay

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: we have to tr-

Rev. Michele Owes: And we must put on patience for that

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: God knows what he's doing

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes.

Absolutely. Absolutely. this brings us to the end of our podcast. We are so excited to have had this time to share with you. We will be back for more tips on marriage. We are going to just beat the subject until we get it, right?

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: fun, and I like the way we are approaching it. It's not, the j-

Rev. Michele Owes: Yes

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: or, that way that we approach marriage. It's just being led to share funny, the serious, the scriptural, the not scriptural, just about marriage that are all so true so relevant

Rev. Michele Owes: wonderful. Now, if you have questions that you want to ask Mrs. Cherry and I, please go to our [00:30:00] website teachablewoman.com. Not women, but woman. That's teachablewoman.com and the screen that says contact us, just click on that or scroll down to contact us. Contact us, send us a piece of email. We will receive it, and then we will include those questions on our podcast.

So thank you so much for participating in that way. We will be with you no longer tonight. We're going to free you back to your activities, and we will talk with you again on our next podcast. Thank you so much for being with us

And with your spouses. All right.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: God

Rev. Michele Owes: Bye now.

Rev. Diana P. Cherry: love you. Oh. my Lord